Now that I've got a handle on why it makes me uneasy

[silverthorne]

Okay. RP.

We all know that ICA should equal ICC? We've all seen enough posts about this to nod our heads wisely and go 'Yes, yes, yes, that's right. One of the big RP rules, if there ever was one', right?

Okay, fine.

Then answer me this--why does this rule apply to you (generic 'you' here), right up until the point where your character starts taking hits--usually along the popularity lines--and they start to look bad?

I've seen this constantly in a lot of RP lately. Just as an example:

Person One complains because Person Two has their character acting like a jackass but won't accept that that means their character will garner negative attention. A few weeks later, Person One has their character likewise act like something of an ass, then starts complaining when their character starts catching hell.

Then, when they get called on it, the answer is always 'But my character is a badguy/good guy/crazy paisley psychotic couch; They're supposed to act that way, it's In Character/Canon for them to act that way!!!'

Well...okay fine then. If that's the case, and that's how you see it, that's fine. Still--that means your character is going to catch hell from someone, all right?

No seriously. If your baddie does awful, despicable things that the 'good guys' can't stomach, expect them to get jumped on by good guys--ones that will likely keep jumping on your baddie til you yield or flee (or get caught or die, if the comm/rp allows). If you play a self-righteous hero who arrogantly insists on the 'rightness' of his path (whether or not he really is right or wrong), less extreme 'heros' and good guys are going to call him intolerant and call him on his shit, and bad guys are gonna pick at him until he's frazzled or learns to blow them off. And if you play a character that does something that makes the normal, average, everyday real person go 'uh, ew!', then expect there to be at least a few characters that will do that as well in reaction. And no, they won't stop either. Just like your character, the pups reacting to him are being played in character.

Basically, in any situation where the character brings up a subject, takes an action, or forces a situation that not everyone agrees with, especially one that can be considered controversal, In Character Consequences will include strife, arguments, and your character being a lot less popular with certain other characters than they were before they took that course of action.

And just for those reading this and going 'yeah!'--keep this in mind. Your characters reaction to these other characters? Also have In Character Consequences. This means if you choose to play one of the characters slamming these 'other' characters? There will also be fallout for you as well. No one escapes, or should escape, the consequnces of their actions and reactions ICly.

And, if you get this, then OOCly?

There's nothing to complain about. And if you think there is, then maybe an OOC decision to stay out of the IC situation by avoiding the things leading to it is in order.

In real life, there is strife and disagreement and it's damned uncomfortable. The same goes for gaming--unless you're aiming from some sort of wacked-out 'nothing is ever permanently bad' result in your RP, strife and disagreement and break ups and fights will also occur. It's one of the many things that makes RP three dimensional and rich.

Don't take it personally. And don't cheat yourself or others out of IC consequences--or else allow your pups for more than one type of reaction. Either way.

Remember it's just RP.

Comments

[chakrabat.livejournal.com]

Word, homie. Especially on that very last line. It feels like a lot of people are forgetting that lately. D:

[molotovcoqtiz.livejournal.com]

There's nothing to complain about. And if you think there is, then maybe an OOC decision to stay out of the IC situation by avoiding the things leading to it is in order.

But then there is also when you get into an rp situation not knowing that the other person might turn out a completely other person, both IC and OOC. Especially when they're working to make sure their puppet is loved, loved, loved so that, when you find out, it's after the fact when they start hell IC and OOC about how you're portraying your character, how you're reacting to events, that you learn the truth.

So you can't always avoid it oocly from the beginning because you don't know about it.

[silverthorne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there's players like that, too.

Thing is, the other people involved still have the choice of how to handle it once it does happen. And even if the problem player is being a total idiot in real life, that doesn't automatically have to equal to the people dealing with the bad rper getting into it with them.

The option to walk away is always there, and usually is the best choice, and often the inevitable one anyway, if the problem can't be solved through communication. Why spend all the energy getting upset when you can spend it moving on and finding a better spot to RP in, or at least just don't bother responding/reacting to the person causing the problems?

People can't make other people act like grown-ups, but they can certainly make themselves act like one.

[molotovcoqtiz.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying you can't walk but I will say that when it's friends, it's harder when they take what your character does IC and harass you OOC over it. This has happened to me lately. If they'd handled it ICly? YAY! So be it. I would have done so. But to be snarked at OOC because I didn't bow down before their puppet? That's bullshit. And yes, I did walk away both ICly and OOCly but I'm saying that there are times when you do have want/need to complain because you've been blindside with OOC waaangst from several sides for, as you've said, playing a game.

No you can't make them act like grown up, but you should have a right to respond to being attacked OOCly.

[silverthorne.livejournal.com]

You have the right, sure. But when it gets to the point where that becomes the focus rather then roleplay? And it starts to affect the role play?

Then there's a problem.

Maybe I'm not clear enough in stating that what I'm getting at is that it's a two fold problem I'm getting at.

Folks get upset when other people do things with their characters that make things uncomfortable. Then when it's their turn, they return the favor and act just as assy. At that point, the RP becomes an IC argument over OOC dislikes and disagreements that are a result, at base level, of people taking things personally in real life rather then leaving it in the role play and just playing and accepting the IC consequences of whatever situation happens. They confuse role play reactions for real life, and then all sort of shit starts up.

If it's a friend, then that's when you disengage it totally from the game, take them aside and hash out whatever the underlying problem is however it needs to be hashed out.

And refuse to play with them in game until the out of game problem is solved.

The other thing to remember is that there will always be people who will find fault with what you're doing with your pup, regardless of what kind you play. There really isn't much you can do about that if a friendly comparison chat doesn't iron things out. At that point, it's play and let them spin their wheels, or let them chase you off. Me, I'd rather just play and not waste time arguing. The other person will either chill eventually, or one of us will leave. No skin off my nose either way, even with a friend.

[chiss.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Not disagreeing with Anne, but I've run into this, too, and it's important to remember it DOES happen... and it hurts, you know? Especially when it's someone you thought was an OOC friend who reacts... well, unfairly to you over this kind of stuff.

Plus the onus usually seems to be on the attacked to back down from the confrontation or it's their fault for "continuing the conflict". I dunno, maybe I'm just cranky.

[silverthorne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know it seems the attacked gets the brunt of it, but here's the thing--you've already been attacked once--you know the person will likely to do it again if you respond in kind, right? So why give them more ammo?

One of the hardest things to do is to just disengage and walk away. It's human nature for most folks to just stay in there and keep swinging--after all, you don't want the other person thinking you're giving in, right? (or for anyone watching to think that maybe you changed your mind and are backing down)?

Thing is, you keep fighting, and you're still giving them what they want--which is the attention and chance to keep blaring their horn, and honestly, a good portion of the time the person attacking is wanting attention for themselves anyway. So you're really giving them what they want rather than doing any good in the 'let's look at this differently' direction.

Walking away though? That's a lot more than just 'giving in'. It takes two to tango, right? So if you aren't giving them the time and energy they need to support their little fit, where are they? Other than frothing out in the middle of nowhere where no one but them really cares. Meanwhile, your time and energy can go into something else.

People spend a lot of time validating their RP choices, and ulitmately, unless it's a problem that can be worked out by talking about, it's just wheel spinning, really.

And yeah, sometimes it sucks, such as with friends or those players that just keep going even if you walk away from them. Friends--try and talk with them. And if that doesn't work, then, at least for RP, part ways. It sucks, but if it's that much of a hotbed for you guys, then better to drop that interaction rather than getting to the point where it starts affecting other things, including the actual friendship (and if they're backbiting you so bad that that recommendation us useless...than maybe the friendship doesn't need to continue either).

For the rest of them--well, that is why most sites have blocking filters and IP tracing. It's a pain, but it's better than an attempt with a 2-by-4 that won't really do a lot of damage, other than keeping the fight going.

[skyshark.livejournal.com]

So all muns are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Good to know.

[silverthorne.livejournal.com]

Explain? Are you taking this as a slam or not?

[skyshark.livejournal.com]

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, yes, there's a fundamental. . . well, hypocrisy in holding this position at this point.

You seem unaware of it, mind, so that's not a slam against you. But saying that, now, doesn't have a lot of impact.

[derek-bliss.livejournal.com]

Ah.

It could apply, but that's not the only place I see it happening, and not the worst example, either. Nor does it share all the points in the post. This is a...general 'I've seen all this shit happening lately in different places' post. Parts of it could apply to any number of RP's I'm aware of and participate in.

And if you're referring to my stance on a certain situation, and I'l, confirm on IM rather than here because quite frankly another wangst war is...yeah, pointless--I don't really care on either side at this point because it's gotten to the beyond silly stage; I just think the whole thing got ridiculously out of hand, and is still out of hand. My part in it is that at this point I'm all IC reactions in regards to it, and OOC have no more opinions other than 'please chill people--just playing my character here.'

*shrugs*

[skyshark.livejournal.com]

I hate it when I get the exact same thing in more than a couple games. I start to get the creeping feeling it's after me.

[silverthorne.livejournal.com]

*pets*

Nah, it's just tasting you...like a shark tastes a surfboard to make sure it's a seal.

;)

[chiss.livejournal.com]

There will also be fallout for you as well. No one escapes, or should escape, the consequnces of their actions and reactions ICly.

Of course not. But there also comes a time in all games, I think, where you have to be careful your OOC wants and disputes and whatnot don't become IC... and that seems to be happening a lot, right now. OOC conflict with an IC face so it can be justified in terms of the game, or a lot of people at least taking it that way, you know?

[derek-bliss.livejournal.com]

Which is actually the point I'm trying to get to, if not as concisely as you just did. Too much intermixing and it's getting insane in some cases.

[chiss.livejournal.com]

I completely agree. We're also seeing a lot of... for lack of better term, childish behavior. Nobody in particular indicated here, but it doesn't help when once a dispute is settled, there are more people on the sidelines who aren't informed-when they shouldn't be, because it's, again for a lack of better term, not their business--and then kick it back up, you know? There seems to be a real "gang mentality" type of conflict going on, OOC, at least in one certain game. "It's settled... "

And then Jake and Jimmy and Bobby and Sue all want a piece of the !PLOT! and... ugh.